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What is Wrong With Battle for Azeroth's Dungeons?

criado 25/4/2019 em 21:01 por tettles

TettlesBalance Druid guide writerBalance Druid guide writer, "how did that just happen" aficionado, and MDI Caster, Tettles joins us today to discuss what is wrong with the Battle for Azeroth dungeons.

Tettles is a former 2018 MDI competitor and a top ranked Balance Druid for many seasons. He began casting with the Method Race to World First event for Battle of Dazar'alor and currently rotates between the caster role and the analyst desk for the current 2019 Mythic Dungeon International. Watch live video from Tettles on www.twitch.tvMandatory Melee KicksSours'Class Diversity in the MDIEspiritualista Sábia das MarésShrine of the StormGritacéu DevoranteAtal’DazarVendedora de RefeiçõesThe Motherlode!!Anciã LeaxaUnderrotMolda-espinho do ConventículoWaycrest ManorJesse LoupinoTol'DagorTorrente ArcanaRajada de VentoTrash ImbalanceFusão SombriaThe Motherlode!!Pacificador MecanizadoJóquei MecanoideJóquei MecanoideJóquei MecanoideThe Motherlode!!Pacificador MecanizadoThe Motherlode!!Mandante da Empreendimentos S.A.Máquina de Guerra da Empreendimentos S.A.Affix Interaction Inside of InstancesEncorajadoraEstilhaçanteEncorajadoraEstilhaçanteWaycrest ManorShrine of the StormEstremecedoraApinhadaExplosivaFeitor KorgusTol'DagorImpacto ExplosivoVulcânicaEnraivecedoraAriscaTirânicaFortificadaCheckpointsUnderrotShrine of the StormKing's RestAnciã LeaxaAqu'sirrLorde TrovamareAqu'sirrSiege of BoralusSiege of BoralusAvistador GrimpagrisEncorajadoraViq'GothConclusionMortalha da OcultaçãoKing's RestTol DagorShrine of the Storm

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Comentado por dokeefe1986all true and good points. he didn't even mention the bugs or mechanic exploitation like snapping or elevation changing etc.Comentado por MoonstakerMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.Comentado por sikhjatt23Well summed up. I agree especially with explosive and how much hp they haveComentado por XaleaThe dungeons in BfA are really not interesting. I'm not much of a M+ or raid person anymore, but I did a lot in Legion because they were fun and because they were required for the Class Hall quests, etc. There's just no reason to do BfA stuff beyond the War Campaign, which is just one or two here and there. They are boring, no rewards, with too much trash that makes it take even longer and be that much more boring. I would go insane if all I did in WoW was dungeons, right now.Comentado por Enzo89really well put, legion was on spot with story telling and its dungeons. They were tricky maybe, but not boring and dragging us on as long as the BFA dungeons do. Even the graphics of them were better overall.Comentado por ZerOrbitMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.Comentado por PlagueFishThrough experience I can safely say melee are simply better than ranged classes in M+. Poor casters like mages have to either wait for their cast to finish, or interrupt their own cast in order to interrupt the trash casts with 24sec cd xD.Comentado por DeatheyesMy problem with BFA dungeons is 100% the trash. You can make engaging trash without it being as difficult as a boss. I love all the BFA dungeon bosses (maybe minus a few) but I despise pretty much all of the trash. Just feels like a slogComentado por ReallyAbigarMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.Comentado por Artek88The dungeons in BfA are really not interesting. I'm not much of a M+ or raid person anymore, but I did a lot in Legion because they were fun and because they were required for the Class Hall quests, etc. There's just no reason to do BfA stuff beyond the War Campaign, which is just one or two here and there. I would go insane if I spammed BfA dungeons all the time.My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.all true and good points. he didn't even mention the bugs or mechanic exploitation like snapping or elevation changing etc.Comentado por warsnOne of my biggest complaints with BFA dungeons is that every one of them feels too constricting. Back in WoD we had Grimrail depot which had narrow corridors and railings/boxes overhead that would just move your camera distance if you changed position and annoy the heck out of you. It just feels cramped on space. Legion we had open expansive dungeons with wide pathways and sanguine felt fine, quaking felt fine. In BFA every dungeon feels like Grimrail Depot and it makes me wish for the return to Eye of Azshara, seagulls or not.Comentado por DimitrizMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.Comentado por auranimI don't particularly like dungeons and raids, but I'm under the impression that it's mostly because of a few points you made. Wow's medieval combat system just makes everything feel sluggish and their new class design makes all classes feel samey and lacking. On top of that they keep adding modern mechanics to an old system. Ground targeted enemy abilities + affixes? On classes that can't cast while moving? On healers that can't cast while moving? And the GCD just makes it all worse because it makes it all the more annoying to add a quick movement or shield ability in the middle of your rotation because it feels like you're wasting ages of damage or healing. Not to mention the whole need to use external resources or websites to know who you're inviting to your party, and the subsequent elitism that it reinforces.

Oh, and RNG makes all that effort potentially worthless because you're not investing all that time and stress to get something good, you're investing on a chance to get something good. It's just too frustrating.Comentado por JaigarI don't have any problem with bolstering or bursting themselves. I think its alright to have affixes that can slow down the run abit and make you change how you DPS packs down. My only issue with it is that it triggers off too much. They took a step in the right direction by removing on-death affixes from the blobs/skellies in Shrine. But the Tick packs in Underrot, the maggots in Waycrest, and the other large packs of small mobs, its just annoying. Classes have unavoidable AoE as part of their DPS and there's nothing they can do about it.

Bursting+Quaking is just so bad I don't understand why its in the pool. Why is 50% of the damage taken in a dungeon from these 2 affixes combined?

Kicks matter so much more in certain dungeons over others. For example, in AD, if you don't kick the venom blasts, you just get wrecked. I healed a 14 waycrest at 386 on my resto shaman no problem with friends. I tried pugging a 12 AD at 405 on the resto shaman (during greivous week) and I couldn't keep up because there was just no kicks. 1 missed kick was costing me 3 globals to catch up on healing.

I don't think the Underrot run back is that long. The shortcut after the first boss cuts off quite a bit, and since you're mounted, its maybe 45 seconds to get back to the end boss. Shrine runback is even longer, and the MDI routes dont unlock the shortcuts because they simply can't.

Shrine trash placement is by far the worst in any dungeon. There's too many pats and bad mob worth. With Sanguine its an absolute nightmare as people often run and pull additional mobs which means over %. Its such a bad experience.Comentado por PeredhilMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.
My problem with BFA dungeons is 100% the trash. You can make engaging trash without it being as difficult as a boss. I love all the BFA dungeon bosses (maybe minus a few) but I despise pretty much all of the trash. Just feels like a slogBlizzard feels that you don't kill enough trash on most dungeons thisComentado por maxchumIn legion i was pushing up to +23, now my highest is 14. I'm simply don't want to go too high this xpack due to issues stated above by the author.
Now we just do 3-5 keys a week, mostly gearing up couple toons and that's it, instead of trying and trying, like in Legion.
Don't get me wrong, Legion had problems too but somehow keys managed to stay hard but good kind of hard, not over punishing like half of the current dungeons.
Honestly, 90% of enjoyment comes from playing WoW with good people, and only 10% comes from doing actual keys.Comentado por JaigarI would also like to add that class design carries over into every part of the game. Its like having a rock in your shoe you can't get out. It drags down whatever you try to do.

Legion did have some affix silliness such as sanguine in BRH, but healers and tanks were more powerful and they just didn't carry as much weight.Comentado por TwostarI would just be repeating what everybody else has said, tedious trash, too many forgettable dungeons etc. I haven't done a keystone in over 2 months at this point. The community is partly to blame too because raider.io score and the MDI has made the dungeoneering scene insufferable (I did high keys in Legion so the bad player excuse won't wash), but I also acknowledge that nothing can be done about that. The MDI wannabe mentality has trickled down to the point where I've had someone want to deathskip in a random heroic.Comentado por LeftkeywestMy biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn't too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you're battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.Comentado por gmfitzgeraldI would also like to add that class design carries over into every part of the game. Its like having a rock in your shoe you can't get out. It drags down whatever you try to do.

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